Hear 4: Carlie Sterling

 This episode is a deeply personal and honest conversation with Carlie Sterling. In this interview, Carlie opens up about her journey navigating ADHD, bipolar disorder, and an eating disorder—all while balancing work, college, and the everyday challenge of trying to understand herself. 

This episode touches on identity, mental health, resilience, and the complicated process of learning how your brain works while the world expects you to keep moving forward.

A quick note before we begin: this episode includes discussions around mental health challenges, including eating disorders and suicidal thoughts. Please take care while listening and pause if you need to.

If anything in this episode resonated with you, or if you’re struggling, please know that support is available.

For immediate help in the U.S., you can call or text 988, the Suicide & Crisis Lifeline, available 24/7. You can also chat via 988lifeline.org.

For eating disorder support, visit the National Eating Disorders Association at www.nationaleatingdisorders.org or call their helpline at (800) 931-2237.

For ADHD resources and support, check out CHADD at www.chadd.org.

For bipolar disorder support, the Depression and Bipolar Support Alliance is available at www.dbsalliance.org.

If you’re navigating Hashimoto’s thyroiditis, organizations like the American Thyroid Association (www.thyroid.org) offer reliable information and guidance.

Transcript

0:04

Hey, I'm Eric and I'm here for you. Today's episode is a deeply personal and honest conversation with an old friend of mine, Carly Sterling. We talk about her journey, navigating A DHD, bipolar disorder, eating disorder, and a few extra things all while balancing work, college, and the everyday challenge of trying to understand herself while continuously growing and evolving. What makes this conversation especially powerful is how layered her experiences, Carly shares. What it's like not only to live with these diagnosis, but also to uncover patterns within our own family, realizing that some of these struggles didn't start with her, and that understanding that history can be both heavy and healing. I feel like she touches on identity, mental health, resilience, and the complicated process of learning how your brain works while the world expects you to keep moving forward. I will say a quick note before we begin this episode does include, uh, discussions around mental health challenges, including eating disorders and suicidal thoughts, so please take care while listening and pause if you need to. Outside of that, please enjoy this incredible conversation I had with my friend Carly.

Eric 1:36

I knew you in school, back in school and you were always so confident, so well spoken, outgoing, very knowledgeable, you easily, every time you were in the room, I just assume you're the smartest person in the room. incredible vocal talents. you were, just an amazing person. incredible light good, just good company, right? And me, I was the worst. And I can recognize that I recognize. So,

Carlie 2:02

I thought you

Eric 2:02

no, no, you're being too kind. I, and so being able to talk to you in this sense, I will say this. you hit it unbelievably well, I don't think anyone could have known that you were suffering with anything, because you just seemed, again, so put together, so thoughtful, so focused, so direct. I mean, you could have run for president, you know, most of us would've agreed on that. And, I guess the whole point to catch you up that way is to ask, did you know about anything, any of these type of things in high school earlier? Did anything kind of spark before this?

Carlie 2:39

it was a secret even to me. You talk about, you know, hit it incredibly well. Yeah, no, really did. There's, there were some physical, Illnesses that, would come to light later, that would make sense later on. but I, as far as like the A DHD and the bipolar disorder, those, people who have those conditions and a lot of other neurodevelopmental conditions, things in that spectrum, we do a lot of what's called masking. those are essentially very serious compensatory behaviors we use to, appear typical, in public spaces. And we tend to develop an early age, especially like in people who match my profile, We find ways to make it work. and a lot of these ways, Work until they don't. So what happens to a lot of late diagnosed women, with A DHD is they perform really well academically, all through high school. You remember, I graduated, you know,

Eric 3:52

I'd say the top. Yeah.

Carlie 3:53

getting good grades was like very validating for me. I didn't, like have a lot of validation at home. So fortunately I used like my powers for good to get validation that way instead of, other ways that, would've been maybe a little bit more destructive. But, I got to college. I was very excited to, be with peers in an environment where everybody really, cared about the material and learned for the sake of learning. But man, all of my structure was gone. you know, in. High school and middle school and elementary school. I mean, your day is really

Eric 4:29

Yeah.

Carlie 4:29

not yours. You, you have to be in school certain chunks of time. There are certain expectations that you meet. Like you go to your, you know,

Eric 4:41

Yeah.

Carlie 4:42

your early morning choir class, after school, maybe you have a job. Or I was like in play rehearsal, or things like that. you fit in your social time and you had to do your homework and that was pretty much like your day. And, when you go to college, you're in a new place, a new environment. the expectations are different. Classes are happening at all sorts of different times. and it's just different. A big change can really make you come undone. And I did come undone, but I didn't know why. And it was at that point that. Freely, I began to struggle. Now it's not like I sailed through school. I actually struggled a lot, but I

Eric 5:25

Wow.

Carlie 5:25

through it. So, you know, I was just very diligent about studying. Writing papers. Took me forever because I agonized over every little word. but I got through with grit and I just made myself do it and it worked.

Eric 5:41

Wow.

Carlie 5:41

ran outta

Eric 5:42

Yeah.

Carlie 5:44

and by gas I mean dopamine because with A DHD, it's a dopamine deficiency. And I just didn't have enough grit to push through Now, I wouldn't find out that I had a DHD until I

Eric 5:57

Really?

Carlie 5:57

old. because when COVID hit, My work went remote and I was in graduate school at the time as well, which also went remote. And I thought. my gosh, I'm gonna get fired and am gonna have to withdraw from school because I can't, I can't do anything. I can't make myself work. nothing that I'm trying to accomplish is coming to fruition. I'm just staring at the work, desperately wanting to do it, but I can't make myself start. I can't make myself stick to it. And I was having a lot of anxiety about it this point. I did know I had bi bipolar disorder. I'll get back to that. And I thought, well, maybe, this is a symptom associated with that disorder already. And it was, one of my friends who was also late diagnosed A DHD, who said, did it ever occur to you? You could

Eric 6:55

Wow.

Carlie 6:58

And I was like, no, but. Then it got me thinking, and I made an appointment with a psychiatrist who diagnosed me with a DHD within minutes. She was like,

Eric 7:10

Wow.

Carlie 7:10

And I, it was validating, it was destabilizing. I started medication. It wasn't a silver bullet, but oh my gosh, for the first time I experienced like mental quiet, the likes of which I had never encountered before. Absolutely not. I, that's the only way I can describe it is that usually there's many threads, many voices, voices interrupting the voices.

Eric 7:36

Yeah.

Carlie 7:36

these are figurative

Eric 7:37

Mm-hmm.

Carlie 7:41

there's a lot of chatter in there. when I took the medication for the first time and it kicked in, everything just got so quiet and I went, what? Where? What's happening? Wait a minute. Oh, now I know what to do. I can focus on the task. And things just kind of slowed down and became easier in, in a whole new way. It didn't fix. And now it's been several years since then, and boy, I've had some bad days even when medicated.

Eric 8:12

Yeah.

Carlie 8:12

But it happens. but that was, very transformational. I could not believe that I had gone my whole life playing on heart mode, especially when I had, looking back so many childhood symptoms. Just today I was, recounting a few of them with my peers and we can talk about that too. But, Honestly, it's a lot of the stuff that you get in trouble for when you're a

Eric 8:40

That was what I wanted to kind of press on is looking back, what were those signs? What were those telltale moments where you're just kind of sitting there like, of course now it's obvious now that I know this. Look how, yeah.

Carlie 8:50

The light bulb. Oh my gosh. Well, so I didn't know until after I was diagnosed that my dad had been diagnosed in childhood. when I mentioned this to my family members, my grandmother was like, oh yeah, a DHD, like, what your dad had? And I was like, what are you talking about? She's like, yeah, we started him on Ritalin, but, She was like, he became a different kid. He was just like so quiet and focused and I thought it changed his personality, so I didn't want him to

Eric 9:18

Oh.

Carlie 9:19

So that was new information and yes, it's seeing it in my dad. He's got. Wild issues with executive functioning. But for me, usually they'll say like, with like girls, you know, they have primarily inattentive A-A-D-H-D. And in that way it'll look like daydreaming, forgetfulness, just kind of like, you know, a sweet little space cadet. But I didn't have that. I had, I

Eric 9:47

Oh,

Carlie 9:47

boy A, DHD, which these are obviously like not terms. They're, they're

Eric 9:53

of course.

Carlie 9:54

But you know, boys, are thought to be more likely to have a hyperactive type of A DHD and that's what you might traditionally associate with. Like, not being able to sit still and interrupting and being chatty and, you know, turning everything into a toy. And that was me as a little kid. I climbed on everything I wouldn't stop talking. I haven't

Eric 10:18

Oh.

Carlie 10:18

ever since. And, you know, sitting still was, still is, was such a challenge for me. It was probably the number one thing that I would get in

Eric 10:27

Hmm.

Carlie 10:27

for, was like,

Eric 10:28

Okay.

Carlie 10:28

but I was also like a very good girl. I didn't wanna be in trouble. I like to follow the rules. And so this is what happens a lot of the time with girls because of the way that we're socialized to like be socially pleasing. we'll get in trouble for it and we won't just keep doing it We're socialized that we should be obedient and not so disruptive, and we wanna follow the rules because that's the expectations placed on us very early in life. So I wanted to be a good girl, so I tried to sit in my chair straight. I tried not to interrupt or talk when I wasn't supposed to be talking. And here's the thing. I would develop coping mechanisms to help me listen better. For example, I'm doing it now, like I will doodle while I'm talking and listening so that I can better pay attention to what's happening. And the teachers would say, attention. And they would take it away from me. And I would even plead with them on occasion. Like if you just looked at the doodles, you would see that they're

Eric 11:33

Mm-hmm.

Carlie 11:34

that you were talking about. and they just, they wouldn't listen. And it was very frustrating. And so it starts early when you're a kid. especially, I mean, I would love to think that we're more

Eric 11:49

Mm-hmm.

Carlie 11:50

and evolved now. Okay. But teachers are doing their best with what they have, and it's not a lot. So, you know, especially at the time, it was not at all for a teacher to

Eric 12:01

Yes.

Carlie 12:01

reprimand you for fidgeting instead of you know, is something else

Eric 12:06

to that point, you bring up an incredible topic there. do you feel like as a society we've kind of evolved and grown with the diagnosis of A DHD and a DD and that teachers nowadays, because technically I guess our age group, the kids we went to school with, they're growing to be teachers. Do you think that group of people are adapting and learning to kind of better take care of people with these type of disorders?

Carlie 12:30

I think based on what I've seen and experienced, that the information is more widely available. I think people know more than they used to. I don't think that people have more resources than they used to to address these issues. And knowledge and awareness is itself a very precious resource. But it could be possibly even more tragic these days if teachers or other caregivers are aware that there's an issue, but they don't have the capacity to really. Do much to help beyond getting, reasonable accommodations through, the proper channels. That's obviously something, but from what I hear from teachers, there can even be challenges with that. And you can only do what you can do. So knowledge is power, but it's not everything. I'm grateful, sometimes for social media because it's one of the fastest disseminators of information. Now whether that information is accurate or good for us, totally different story. But it does put the info out there and somebody will sometimes hear something and go, oh, interesting. Oh, I didn't know that. That could be a sign of something else. Maybe I should do more research.

Eric 13:49

Mm-hmm.

Carlie 13:50

is also very valuable. You know, the therapists and prescribers and things like that, they get really, ticked off about, people diagnosing and self diagnosing, like on

Eric 14:00

Of course.

Carlie 14:01

But honestly, I'm like, people are just trying to understand themselves. They're just trying to get some help. And if intervention associated with their self-diagnosis is like ineffective, then we know they don't

Eric 14:14

Yeah.

Carlie 14:14

it's really not, I don't like to gate keep it. If somebody wants to tell me they think they have a DHD I'm not gonna be like, where's your piece of paper proving

Eric 14:22

course, right.

Carlie 14:23

but you know, it's a delicate balance, I think for people in positions of power and prescribers and, caregivers and things like that. I always say, I don't know how anybody gets diagnosed with anything. It's such a circus.

Eric 14:35

A agreed.

Carlie 14:37

making an appointment, and it's a circus to narrow down all the differential diagnoses that you have to think

Eric 14:44

Yeah.

Carlie 14:44

treating a client. Like, I mean, I'm like, wow, it is amazing that we get it even like 20% of the time.

Eric 14:50

Agreed.

Carlie 14:51

But yeah, there's still plenty of like inattentive caregivers and teachers, and I think that's always going to be the case. But in general, I do think that what I see is more

Eric 15:01

I think that's the most important part is everyone's gonna have to figure it out on their own. They're gonna, as you mentioned, do their own research. It's out there, it's available. there is a lot of, what I would deem incorrect information, but neither here nor there. the main focus is, I kind of want to backtrack a little bit, because you had mentioned you were diagnosed with bipolarism and that was found before the A DHD. I'd love to hear how you found out about it, how you were diagnosed, but also moving a little towards the future. how having both of those diagnosis kind of affected your life and how looking back on it, you were like, oh, of course. Now both of these things are managed. It makes it twice as difficult, I'd assume.

Carlie 15:42

It's not a bad assumption. you know, if they're sort of pulling from the same like power source,

Eric 15:48

Yeah.

Carlie 15:49

the same battery, then, yeah, it's draining, but. I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder when I was 27. That

Eric 15:57

Hmm.

Carlie 15:57

It's not really that late. because even though there are signs of bipolar disorder that they, see in like, they call it pediatric bipolar disorder. even though there's trends and signs, I mean officially, mental healthcare providers, they don't like to diagnose, this particular disorder, before 25. But I think, don't quote me on this, I haven't cracked open my DSM in a while, but 18 or 21, I think around there you have to make a case to justify, issuing a diagnosis of somebody that young for, certain types of bipolar. The type of bipolar I have is bipolar type two. the way I break it down, which. Gosh, I hope me being like reductive doesn't offend people or invalidate anybody, but if I'm just going to distill it into simple terms, bipolar disorder type one is, what we usually see like on TV as bipolar. So it's a very extreme type where, the depressive episodes, but importantly, the manic episodes are more extreme. And so with full on mania that you see in bipolar type one, you'll see, hugely like risk taking behaviors, massive spending, gambling, high risk sex, sometimes even delusions and things like that. And, so severe that it typically requires At least one hospitalization for them to become, you know, more lucid. don't have that type of bipolar. I have bipolar type two, which I characterize as just like, a mini version of bipolar type one. because we don't experience typically full mania. it's something called hypomania, which is exactly what it sounds like. Hypo, like, quite enough of less. everybody experiences mania and hypomania differently. I experience hypomania like very pleasantly. I'm in a very good mood. I don't sleep much, but I'm in a very good mood and I'm very productive. The worst. most impulsive thing I ever did when I was hypomanic is I turned the closet under my stairs, into a beautiful

Eric 18:03

Oh wow.

Carlie 18:03

during quarantine. And that's where I worked remotely for like the two years that I, not working on site at my job. and I did

Eric 18:13

Wow.

Carlie 18:14

two days. I didn't sleep, but I was just feeling really good about it. I made the whole thing look really pretty. I didn't like blow my budget spending or anything like that. And so I'm like kind of a really fortunate, like lucky little responsible person with hypomania. which is why it's sad that I am on medication

Eric 18:34

Oh.

Carlie 18:35

takes it away from me because it's very pleasant, but it's risky, you know? because that's the thing. If you get into a manic or a hypomanic episode, it's really easy to lose sight of.

Eric 18:46

Hmm.

Carlie 18:48

And so I might be having a great time and feeling like I've got everything figured out, but the reality might be very different from that. And the longer I stay in that state or the longer I'm going up and down, the harder it's going to be for me

Eric 19:02

Oh,

Carlie 19:02

recognize when

Eric 19:03

okay.

Carlie 19:04

So, you know, the other side of that are the depressive episodes. And I mean, I feel like most everybody in their life will experience depression at some point. how I got diagnosed is I, you know, if I have to pick like between the anxiety and the depression bucket, money tends to just go in the anxiety bucket, right? Like, I over-function, I'm like hyperactive. I'm go, go, go. I'm thinking way too much. I'm doing too much, right? So I'm usually

Eric 19:33

Well,

Carlie 19:33

I run hot. depression is slow, slow. You turn into goop.

Eric 19:37

yeah.

Carlie 19:37

And even though I had experienced, you know, feelings like that before, what really, made me wonder if something was wrong is when I landed into a depression and it didn't go away

Eric 19:49

Hmm.

Carlie 19:49

for an entire month, I a full body sadness. And I thought, this isn't right. This is unusual for me. and so I made an appointment, but to backtrack even farther than that, my mother has bipolar disorder and borderline personality disorder. When I was in college and I was flaming out, like I talked about where everything fell apart academically, I didn't know what was happening anymore. I was really just flailing. I was a brief little toaster about it for a while, but eventually, like just the, the anxiety of always like being behind and confused and like out of time and, and overwhelmed. Like I, I to the doctor and I started, Prozac for anxiety. This is actually super common, especially with like, you know, late diagnosed women with A DHD even folks with bipolar disorder as we come in because we're trying to get stuff done, but we're overwhelmed and we panic. And so they think, and it makes sense why they think this, this is anxiety. Well it is, but there's

Eric 20:52

Mm.

Carlie 20:52

different that's causing the anxiety. So it helped, but it didn't fix. And in fact, I would later try a different anxiety medication that would make me.

Eric 21:01

Oh,

Carlie 21:04

I thought it was just a miracle drug. I was like, this is awesome. I feel

Eric 21:08

oh no.

Carlie 21:08

how people feel all the time? And the answer is no. it's actually not. But I was like, this drug is amazing. And then when the feeling kind of wore off like a few days later, was so mad about it that I was like, I think I should just up my own dose without any oversight. I didn't do that because I have, like, for somebody with like an impulse control disorder, I have like remarkable discipline, like to a fault. some might call them control issues. But my mother had bipolar disorder. She had borderline personality disorder. my dad, was never diagnosed with, a mood disorder, but I think it's there. he, was, like a good guy and

Eric 21:48

Hmm.

Carlie 21:49

definitely an alcoholic, you know, so it's, there was a lot going on. for me at home. My parents were very, focused on each other. Their relationship was like very passionate and volatile. so they were fighting a lot and, very concerned with one another.

Eric 22:02

Wow.

Carlie 22:03

to get their attention and often would end up like soothing them, like in sort of a parentified role because they

Eric 22:11

Oh, no, I'm terribly sorry to hear that. I mean, that's difficult. you're doing this while growing up and not knowing that you have a DHD bipolarism, these things going on with you. So I can only fathom the toll that takes on you, because now as we're looking back on it, you had mentioned, in order to focus, you had, all these like stem controls, these variants, things that kind of keep you locked in. But, you did an incredible job. from what I remember, you were on it, there was no missing a beat with you if I needed an answer or a resolution. I could go to you and be confident in that. And looking back on it, now I have to apologize because I'm seeing that I. Might have, and others might have put extra pressure on you by putting you on this pedestal when you were already dealing with it at home and having to basically play matriarch too. you fit the role so well as somebody who's just so competent and able and capable. now looking back on it, I apologize for putting so much on you if I did do that.'cause I do remember multiple times I would come to you and I would be very, very aggressive in my stent of like, you know the answer, you can help me with this, just do it. And you always did. You were very kind in that you never were aggressive to me in many sense. But, you know, for that, I have to say, apologies across the board, I, wish, that at younger ages we could kind of realize that with one another and kind of connect on those things a lot better. And I think it would've helped out a lot more in the long run. But, you know, hindsight and all that,

Carlie 23:38

I really wouldn't want you to beat yourself up because, you know, there was no, imposition to me. I might have been specifically engineered to like, be like a helper, but I enjoy it and I have always enjoyed it. So even though I think that I was, sort of, specifically engineered to like, be in that role, that happens for a lot of people who, need to find themselves in a position where they're responsible for other people, probably before they're meant to be. Even though that happened to me, for the most part I find it very enjoyable. I really like working with other people and helping people, and if I know the answer, I am like so happy to share that. What does happen though is people with like my personality style, and let me preface this by saying absolutely never did anything of the kind to me.'cause we can over function and we can help when nobody's asking us to help, nobody wants us to help, please go away. so that can happen. we can over function, meaning like we feel responsible to solve everybody else's problems.

Eric 24:40

And you did that?

Carlie 24:42

in again, well but also in context where again, nobody asked and nobody wants it. But also sometimes people, you know, then the emotional labor on the helper and be like, I. They'll, they'll figure it out

Eric 24:59

Yeah.

Carlie 25:00

And I did take on that helper role, which is part of how I ended up, later, you know, in a, in a very, mentally and emotionally abusive marriage. And so that does happen. But I will say that like, for the most part, really am proud of this quality of myself. I, I like being a helper. I enjoy like, working with other people to them achieve their goals and to understand them. So, you know, I, it's, it's not bad. I, I like it. And, and I'm proud of it. So, no matter how I got here, I'm, I'm happy that I'm here. I just need to keep an eye on it, as many of us do to make sure that we're

Eric 25:44

Yeah,

Carlie 25:45

when we're asked and setting

Eric 25:47

of course. or you just find someone like me who's just like, Hey, do you need help with that? I was like, I would love that. that's so kind and thoughtful of you. I appreciate it.

Carlie 25:54

You know, a thank you goes a long way with a lot of people like me. You know, it's like, just a little

Eric 25:59

Yeah.

Carlie 25:59

That's, that's all we need. you know, if I get, if I get overly

Eric 26:02

Oh,

Carlie 26:03

I feel uncomfortable.

Eric 26:04

I'll tone it back. I'll bring it back.

Carlie 26:06

I'm like, oh. I'm like, no, don't perceive me now. It's weird.

Eric 26:10

Yes, of course. don't gimme a medal. I don't need all this.

Carlie 26:13

But, you know, I just, my parents were, complicated people with their own struggles, and this is just the definition, the

Eric 26:19

Yeah.

Carlie 26:20

of generational trauma. they didn't mean to this, but they did, and their parents did. much worse things to them, that made them do these things to me. And they never did those things on purpose. regardless of their issues and everything. anytime that they did things that were, really messed up and there were quite a few things I still never doubted and I still don't, that they love me. I know that they love me. So that, I did eventually learn, in leaving my abusive relationship that love is not enough to stay a relationship, but

Eric 26:56

Yeah.

Carlie 26:57

it goes a long way. And so, you know, my folks, they did their best. But I, I thought that I knew what bipolar disorder looked like because I was thinking about how it looked in my mom, and because that's the. Image that I had, that's the, archetype that I had in my brain for this is what bipolar disorder looks like. I didn't clock the signs in myself that there were, you know, I was presenting similar issues, but to the left, like, you know, things like that. Just in a way that like a more outgoing, like social, like academically inclined person would show similar symptoms. I mean, I'm lucky that my hypomania feels so pleasant to me. For my mom, it feels like she's vibrating, like angry, like she's irritable and a lot of people experience it that way. my life could be really different if that's how I experienced hypomania, and I'm sure that it would've been. So I. Didn't clock it. I even made a joke with my, one of my therapists at the time where I was like, yeah, both my parents have mood disorders. Isn't it weird that I don't? And she was like, yeah, it is weird anyway. And so neither just right over our heads, perfect opportunity to be like, you know, now that you mention it, bipolar disorder is highly genetic. we wanna pause here for a minute and just evaluate? No, neither of us. We just moved right on. And so it wasn't for another few years that I went, oh,

Eric 28:24

Yeah, I, I have to ask now, what does a supportive community look like? It to somebody that has bipolarism in a DHD? and what is the way that you wish those people could have showed up for you more or loved ones could have been there for you? in certain times that they're needed.

Carlie 28:42

I think that one of the things that makes me struggle when I, try to reflect on this answer is, something that kicks in, like an essential part of cognitive, like executive functioning is that you can organize your thoughts and prioritize things and put them in order and, things like that. And so when somebody's like, what could have helped? I'm like, and it starts to kind of spin around because, my brain just struggles to sometimes like sequence steps where like, if this happened, then maybe this would've happened. And so I spin my wheels a little bit just even now being like, hmm. No, I do think that there were some things that, you know, definitely could have helped me, realize these things about myself and maybe get a little help I mean, for one, like, let's stop telling people to stop

Eric 29:32

A hundred percent. without a doubt.

Carlie 29:34

you know, just, I don't even, I, you know, just if you are a human being,

Eric 29:38

A hundred percent yes.

Carlie 29:39

be crying. you know, so there's just that. and especially like your boys and your men, like, you know, get back in

Eric 29:45

Yeah.

Carlie 29:45

those tear ducts'cause it's healing. So that's, that's a just a big thing. You know, I think a lot of people, this was certainly true of me, is like, I'm a deeply emotional person and people. Like my parents, for example, knew I was very sensitive, but instead of like appreciating that about me or even just accepting it, it would be like, stop being so sensitive and, which, you know, isn't gonna

Eric 30:08

Of, of course.

Carlie 30:09

sensitive. Like it's, it's probably gonna make them feel worse. and there's just a, even a cultural like automatic response almost to invalidate like

Eric 30:22

Mm-hmm.

Carlie 30:23

And that's just something that, can be really damaging, you know, no matter how healthy you are. But we'll do it in a way that is intending to be helpful as well, right? Like if somebody is saying that, they're. Struggling with X, Y, or Z, and like we pop in with like, oh no, it's not that bad. You just gotta do A, B, and C. but if they're still in the feeling and they need to process it, or hey, you're helping when you haven't been asked to help, that can make the whole thing worse. So even I think just the way that we, treat feelings and emotions like culturally, with folks who aren't struggling with any kind of mood disorder already could use some work. but I think also that just like, instead of trying to constantly like mask, right, like I'm having an emotion, so I'm pushing it down because that's not normal and I need to be normal. What really helped me is like a tenant of like acceptance and commitment therapy, which is like, I'm having a feeling. And that's just what it is. And I named it, and it's the same as like saying it's raining, it's the weather. We're not judging. It isn't gonna make it go away. and I learned that by accepting that I was experiencing an emotion and giving myself talking to myself like I would a friend made the bad feelings go away a lot faster than beating myself up over them and white

Eric 31:46

yeah.

Carlie 31:47

to like look normal. So that's definitely something, that helped a lot. But I think about like signs when I was a kid that I was gonna have like be dysregulated and like a moody kid. I mean I put it like this and this is gonna be jarring for some people. To hear, but you know, I'm really trying to put it into perspective, it's, when I was 11, thought maybe I should die. And that's not, that's not something that most 11 year olds that are gonna think now, unfortunately, many will. But we don't consider that to be like, hmm, like a typical milestone that like an 11-year-old experiences. Right. If an 11-year-old does, then there may be, you know, some mood issues starting, you know, like puberty is a wild time. There's a lot swirling around in your brain. Everything kind of sucks. and that's gonna be kind of around the time where if there's going to be like a mood disorder in the future, I mean, it'll. It'll be more extreme. Usually the mood swings around puberty. even if they mellow out, you'll see a lot of like inflamed and things like that. You know, I have never considered suicide and I feel fortunate that that hasn't happened to me. But I do remember having that thought as a kid and then as an adult realizing that that's not something that children should really be

Eric 33:28

that thought stayed with you your whole life. Is that right? It was a continual thought, it wasn't a one-off. It was a thought that you had as a child and that stayed with you. It resonated with you, obviously, and whether it be a situation where you never seriously thought of doing it, which very thankful that you didn't, but it was definitely a turning point for you.

Carlie 33:52

Yeah, I think at the time, unfortunately by the time I was 11 I had already, experienced my mother having suicidal ideation where she frequently spoke about wanting to, end her life. And, that was really heavy to hear a lot. And so, I think because of that experience I was like, well, it's really scary when my mom talks about it. I would never wanna actually do it because

Eric 34:22

Yeah.

Carlie 34:23

might impact other people. Like that was always the place I was coming from, which, You know, it was probably a really protective factor for me. And so I would say that thoughts never really seriously occurred to me again, or that is, did not occur to me as seriously again, as in that moment, the first time I can remember it happening. but the thought appearing was so crystallizing and so jarring and so strong that that has stuck with me the feeling that I felt like it would maybe be better if I wasn't alive anymore. I remember that feeling very well, and I remember how much that feeling ultimately frightened me. And even though I ended up, you know, having like. You know, my share of depressive episodes, like, you know, throughout my time having bipolar disorder, especially before medication, that was never really where my brain went again. I mostly found other, other ways to, torture myself. You know, that's where we get into like the disordered eating territory where instead of considering, you know, actually dying by suicide, really just myself in other ways through, you know, an overdeveloped

Eric 35:42

Hmm.

Carlie 35:42

of control. if I can't control what's happening around me, I can definitely control what's going into my body

Eric 35:47

Yes.

Carlie 35:48

or rather what isn't. and if I felt really, really bad about myself, I felt like there was no better way to, A tone for that than to not eat,

Eric 35:57

And if I can ask to jump onto that one, would it be fair to categorize as anorexia,

Carlie 36:02

Yes. here's how sick I was and again, the, diagnostic criteria has been adjusted slightly since the time, that I was, in like in

Eric 36:12

Hmm.

Carlie 36:12

active anorexia. But how sick I was is that, I knew that at the time you had to be clinically underweight order to actually get the

Eric 36:24

Hmm.

Carlie 36:24

And I'm only five one, so it actually, me being clinically underweight means that I have to get to like 97 pounds. Like 98 pounds at five, one is like still in the healthy BMI range and BMI is what they would use, for this bullet point. And I thought, well then I just need to get there. so I made it a goal and I got there. I got to, 96.5 pounds. by the way, we haven't gotten into the autoimmune stuff yet, but I, you know, had Hashimoto's thyroiditis and so I was, actually clinically obese for

Eric 36:59

Wow.

Carlie 37:00

So at one point I weighed 183 pounds,

Eric 37:04

Yeah.

Carlie 37:05

five foot one, so that's a BMI of like 33 and change, which is clinically obese. And so at one point that's what I weighed and then I got down at a different point to, you know, 96 and a half pounds and I got there almost as like there I did it.

Eric 37:24

Oh

Carlie 37:24

I

Eric 37:25

my goodness.

Carlie 37:26

and my psychiatrist was like, well, you did it. but if you don't start eating, then I'm gonna have to involuntarily hospitalize you. And I, didn't want to talk to my job about why I would have to miss work. So that's what got my foot in the door to recovering. And what I tell people consider, eating disorders, have, a lot in common with addictions. And I tell people who, are new to recovery or maybe they've recently relapsed or they're considering recovery. Is like, just get your foot in the door. You don't need to decide to recover for the right, like most virtuous reason, whatever is going to get you like, just slightly into the threshold of recovery enough that you could maybe be pulled in. Like, we'll work on like the healthy reasons to recover later. But if your reason for recovering, even entertaining it is shallow like mine. Like I don't wanna deal with telling my boss why I'm in the hospital, so I guess I'm going to eat like, good go with that. We're going to, we're gonna start there. The rest will come. And wouldn't, you know it, when you start feeding a brain that is starting, you start thinking a lot more clearly, and your alignment with your values becomes, a lot more illuminated. Again, you can come back to yourself, but, it's, it's one of those things, with a DHD, it's always. You know, it's something that I was born with. It's like, it's the,

Eric 38:54

Mm.

Carlie 38:54

You know, the, the capacity for it was always there, there was always going to be a chance that that gene would activate and I would develop it. But, you know, even though there were and predispositions of this when I was a kid, I wouldn't say that I was like a kid with bipolar disorder. That really didn't hit me until, you know, I mean, probably high school, was, was kind of slowly getting worse. but anorexia, I feel like I had like run of the mill like early two thousands, like disordered eating, like, like most. People, well, mostly

Eric 39:31

Yeah.

Carlie 39:31

and women did. I mean, there's a lot, of reality tv called onto the carpet right now for how, terrible it was for kids to

Eric 39:40

Yes.

Carlie 39:41

about bodies. So I would say that it was like, you know, just like your garden variety disordered eating, but the anorexia is something that I didn't really, I was a late bloomer for anorexia too, because I, that also didn't start until I was like

Eric 39:55

Really?

Carlie 39:56

maybe.

Eric 39:56

Oh.

Carlie 39:57

Yeah, like 27 or 28. and it was largely in response to, a revelation a huge betrayal in my marriage. that kind of like really pushed me over the edge in that way. and so even though I've, I consider myself recovered. From that, or rather like, I think with you, I use the word remission and that's kind of how I describe it, is like it could come back and I've had some, minor relapses now and then where I've felt anxious and I've fallen back into some restricting. I am fortunately, very honest with myself and I remember it was like when I wasn't honest with myself and how far from my values that drove me because, honesty is pretty important to me. And when you're like an active addiction, you get

Eric 40:48

Mm.

Carlie 40:49

very quickly. I've had some close calls. Some I would call them like. Minor relapses, but I would say for the most part, I'm in remission. So A DHD is where I live. Bipolar, I had a decent run, you know,

Eric 41:02

Mm-hmm.

Carlie 41:03

the worst of the symptoms. and that eating disorder is something that is kind of on the fringes, but fortunately, I often don't think

Eric 41:10

Okay. that's fantastic that it's not there. It's not aggressive because, you know, with a DHD, the hyperactive mind, the thought process, you know, I have family members, my personal life, my wife and others around me are struggling with A DHD bipolarism or autism. And so it can be front loaded, it can be, kind of pushed forward, especially with the weight, structure of things. But, I'm very fortunate and you did, it used remission with me. So that's kind of what I'm saying here. I'm very, I guess I should say proud of you, that you're knocking it outta the part with that you're doing fantastic work. because it can't be easy. This can't be easy. You went from, please correct me if the timeline's off here, but, you know, 27 diagnosed with Bipolarism 28. With the anorexia, 31 a DHD. That's a lot for any one person to take in on in such a short amount of time. But not just that, it's, you're taking that in and then with your active mindset, you're remembering everything, everything's coming to pass. Now you see everything, clearer. couple that on top with, family connections and now realizing, oh, this came, most of this came from my family. This is a struggle point. but having more clarity to it. And to that I say, you're knocking outta the park. You're doing amazing. Being able to control all of this. Keep a steady structure in your life. and that's not to diminish your everyday challenges. It's not to take away from you fighting these every single day. because I can only imagine it's never ending. so could I ask what A road to normality I don't wanna say recovery, but what is a good day, a better day look like for you moving forward?

Carlie 42:47

You know. This, uh, this is where I feel like I also, you know, to layer in the, physical illnesses that I deal with on a regular basis. because, those are also very much intertwined with my everyday experience because, even if I'm having, a good day, like emotionally or mentally, there may be something dragging me down physically that I'm having to deal with as well. So, you did get the timeline right, 27 Bipolar 28, anorexia 31, A DHD, but we could walk that back to, 21. I was diagnosed

Eric 43:19

Mm-hmm.

Carlie 43:20

thyroiditis. this was when I was in college. it's an autoimmune version of. thyroid disease. it's usually characterized by like,'cause I guess like the theme of my body and my brain is like back and forth and back and forth. the autoimmune, element of Hashimotos is characterized by like, you can be hypothyroid and then hyperthyroid, and quick succession, or you can stick around one for a long time. but either way, your antibodies are attacking your thyroid and causing an, an inflammatory response. And that, inflammation doesn't feel good in your body. you know, aches, pains, headaches, brain fog, fatigue, all that jazz. and so I was gaining a lot of weight in college. A lot of people gain weight in college. so I thought maybe that's what this is. You know, I've been struggling a lot academically. I was like, I, I'm stress eating. I'm more active, but I don't know, like I'm tired all the time, but I'm also working really hard and there was just a lot, there that made me question, you know, whether something was wrong or I was just going through a lot. And, for a long time I was like, probably it's nothing. and worst of all, no, probably I don't have like a, like a diagnosable illness probably. I'm just lazy

Eric 44:38

No.

Carlie 44:39

dumb

Eric 44:40

Yeah.

Carlie 44:40

That was, you know, the thought, all the time. But, and then even, you know, back at that time, which at this point, you know, that time, even though this wasn't true, a lot of doctors were like,

Eric 44:51

Hmm.

Carlie 44:51

don't get this. this is for, you

Eric 44:54

Yeah.

Carlie 44:54

like in their mid forties. so when I showed up the first time with symptoms at 19, they were like, get lost. And it's so silly because it is a very simple blood test to screen for this. But because I was young, they were like, you know, eat healthier, go to sleep earlier, and

Eric 45:15

yeah.

Carlie 45:15

you're fine. you know, eventually, my symptoms got, more extreme and I was actually feeling sore in my throat. it was like, you know, you get that

Eric 45:27

Mm-hmm.

Carlie 45:28

like if you're trying not to cry. That's how I felt. But all the time, and I realized that it was actually my thyroid. That was hurting. My thyroid was sore. So I went to the doctor and I was like, this hurts. And it was only at that point where they were like, fine, I guess we'll test you. and even then, even though my, blood test, just showed, I mean classic, like this is Hashimoto's, like antibodies are high. TSH is way elevated. Like, you know, things like that. the doctor still said that I had quote a bit hypothyroidism and I'm like, okay, like what? Like I'm not sick enough. Like she put me on medication, and was kind of like there, I fixed it, but. Anybody with this disorder is gonna tell you that getting your levels back, like just within normal limits, like as defined by like, you know, the American Medical Association. Like that's not all there is. That's

Eric 46:21

Yeah.

Carlie 46:22

that's step zero basically when you get in range, it's kind of only then have even the capacity to like regulate and get right before that gate's not even open. on a regular basis, like I deal with the fatigue and the brain fogs, sometimes I get hives like, you know, it's, a metabolic disease and so it impacts like weight a lot, which is another, you know, factor there. Like if my thyroid goes out of range, which it did recently, like. It was one of those things where I was like, man, I'm losing a lot of hair and like I'm gaining weight and I feel tired. But also I stopped taking my vitamins because I had a life change and I maybe haven't been going to the gym as much. And also I've been stressed at work, so I'm tired. And so, you know, going in and get your test, well, your levels are elevated since last time, but they're not out of range. And you did say, did say all those excuses for why this could be happening. So it's probably that anyway, we'll test you again in eight weeks. Well, you know, eight weeks and eight weeks and eight weeks of like, yeah, it's elevated, but let's check again to the

Eric 47:35

Yeah.

Carlie 47:35

got out of control. I mean, I lost so much hair. I was gaining weight in a way that was making me very uncomfortable in my body and also confused

Eric 47:43

Mm-hmm.

Carlie 47:44

habits weren't really changing. it was madness. I had to take a

Eric 47:48

Wow.

Carlie 47:48

of absence from my job, three and a half weeks just to, and it wasn't enough time. It's just

Eric 47:53

Yeah.

Carlie 47:54

because even just managing, like making appointments and doing the follow ups and like doing the research and getting on the right supplements and whatever, like, that's kind of a full-time job trying to do that in the margins of like year nine to five, especially if you're in rush hour for as long as I am. I mean, it's, it's impossible to try to get it all done. And so, you know, I was very privileged to have even the small amount of like leave that I was able to take is so much more than

Eric 48:26

Yeah.

Carlie 48:27

other people have in this country. that's very depressing. was. was. Fortunate that I was able to take it, it is still very unfortunate that's what I had to do just to like, get back on top of this disease that I had previously been managing quite well

Eric 48:42

Yeah.

Carlie 48:43

than a so it lurks and in a way I'm still kind of recovering from that.

Eric 48:47

I could talk to you for days about this. your life is fascinating. what you're experiencing, what you're going through, and I would really love to continue because we haven't even scratched the surface, right? There's so much more that I think that you have to offer to tell people about, Experiencing these things going through the living your everyday life I feel remiss'cause there's so much more that I wanna ask you and talk to you about, and I think there's so much more that you can say that people need to hear, that people have to hear. But, um, as we close this one out, what's something that you want somebody listening that maybe has a DHD bipolarism, dealing with anorexia, maybe an autoimmune, issue. What's something that you would tell them that you would want them to hear?

Carlie 49:29

I want folks to listen to their instincts. I would say that the majority of, issues in my life regarding managing these various illnesses and disorders and even, getting out of that relationship that I was in. much of that emerged from self doubt and a lack of self-trust. this way of abandoning myself where I knew what I was feeling and experiencing, but my instinct was, well, maybe it's something else, or it's probably not that, it's probably some quality or flaw within me that's making this up. I do think that it's a good quality for folks to consider. you know, looking inward, anytime they're experiencing a problem, because I think self-reflection is a good thing, but ultimately, if you're struggling, don't write it off as like a character flaw. I think that if you are feeling wrong in your brain and in your body, you probably know what you're doing. you're trying to send yourself a message. You might not know what that is yet. so I would say investigate that with trust and curiosity, and especially if, if you aren't doubting yourself, but other people around you are, not to get discouraged because just because one prescriber Believe your lived experience and doesn't wanna work with you doesn't mean that your lived experience is wrong. It could just mean that doctor is an asshole. and you know, or at best,

Eric 51:03

At best.

Carlie 51:05

The point is trust yourself and be your own advocate.

51:19

Thank you guys so much for listening to this conversation I had with Carly because conversations like this matter, they remind us that struggles with mental health are not something to carry alone. And that understanding yourself as a process, not a destination, and. Anything in this episode resonated with you, or if you're struggling, please know that support is available. I will be adding a few numbers and links in the show notes, and if you do need anything, please check those out and reach out because you deserve support, understanding, and care no matter where you are in your journey. You are worth it. And I can't thank Carly enough for coming on and being able to talk so openly about her life and her experiences. It truly was an incredible joy to get to connect with an old friend, um, like we hadn't, uh, ever before. I never knew these things about her and it was, uh, very exciting and eyeopening to really see. What she dealt with, but also how strong she's become through this whole process. So I, and I hope that kind of relayed to those listening as well, because in the talk I had with her, it really did show just how strong of a person she is. And it's impressive to see her growth from when I knew her to now, so I can't say it enough. Thank you so much, Carly, for your time and if you found this episode meaningful. And would really like to hear more of it. Maybe consider sharing it with someone who might need to hear it. It would really help me out and show me that you guys really do kind of like these type of episodes. I would love to keep doing'em and I'm gonna keep doing'em. I'm, you know, not gonna lie to you there. I enjoy it. I'm a collector of stories, so, but if you're interested on coming onto the podcast, please feel free to shoot me a line at Hear for you pod, HEAR, number four Y-O-U-P-O d@gmail.com. I would love to talk with you anytime. So thank you so much and I look forward to hearing you in the next one.